Your third text was Isaiah 53:5. “(8) You said the Bible “is mostly silent about what exactly peace offerings do and what the laying of hands do, so when it ACTUALLY says what they do, we have to pay attention.” I agree, but I don’t think you are being consistent or fair here. Deuteronomy 15:21 And if there be any blemish therein, as if it be lame, or blind, or have any ill blemish, thou shalt not sacrifice it unto the LORD thy God. (Hebrews 10:1-4 NET) The author is arguing that the Law, including animal sacrifices, held no power in itself to forgive sins, but was a shadow of the reality to come. The reading I am giving is legitimate, is consistent with 2 Sam 24:25, and is consistent with the references in the Scripture in Isaiah 53 and 1 Peter 2 that speak of Christ bearing guilt. So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood. All I will say is you’ve misread the verse. Laws of Approach to God When in Fellowship ..... 1:1–3:17 B. The Laws of the Priests ..... 8:1–10:20 A. The sacrifices, according to Lev 10:17 bear the iniquity of the people. It does in Leviticus in the text you’re responding to! ”. I have to disagree. Your explaining away of the term “תוֹכַ֣חַת” has the effect of making the verse incomprehensible. And we're not just talking about survival, but vitality and growth. And this is the law of the sacrifice of peace offerings, which he shall offer to the LORD. “For you to simply say Christ “paid the penalty for our sins” without being more specific, that’s not enough to prove/refute Psub”. ( Log Out / “Jerome didn’t actually say much and instead was quoting Isaiah 53, which itself is a prophecy that has to be interpreted, and so simply quoting Isaiah 53 is not sufficient proof Jerome espoused PSub. Now, can you find anything, in the least bit, among the Fathers that shows that Christ died to pay to God the due honor due to Him, as the Satisfaction model demands? Leviticus 3:1 "If one's offering is a peace offering and he offers an animal from the herd, whether male or female, he must present it without blemish before the LORD. Animals that were deformed or sick could not be sacrificed. Offer it to the Again, go to the article. The only way in which the satisfaction could be made, and men could be set free from sin, was by the coming of aRedeemer who is both God and man. Sin. Sacrifices originated in the garden of Eden. ”. Calvin is quoted instead of some strawman that you prefer taking down. Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by TheFriendlyAtheist, Oct 24, 2017. Actually, it does refer to carrying in the regular sense which is why Peter very specifically said how and where the sin were carried. Though you link to my “Does the Bible say Jesus was our Scapegoat” article, it doesn’t look like you gave it a fair reading. First, you cannot take a text we are disputing and use that as the definitive proof text. accepted or imputed unto him that offered, Conjunctive waw | Pronoun - feminine singular. Second, we have Lev 19:5-8 which states that those who do not partake in the peace offering properly still bear their own iniquity: Now when you offer a sacrifice of peace offerings to the Lord, you shall offer it so that you may be accepted. ( Log Out / You’re picking an imaginary speck out of my eye while there is a beam in yours! Whee, in that whole Bible, does it say that the sacrifices do not bear sin, that the peace offering does not deal with sin? Page 1 of 2 1 2 Next > Oct 24, 2017 #1. Hence, the word “it” is the more justified inference, especially in like of Lev 16 where the significance of laying on hands is actually explained. Jerome was either interpreting, or paraphrasing parts of Isaiah, which gives us an idea what he thought of the matter. You know, the good stuff. “Your second response to me about Peace Offerings is also incorrect, because you misread Leviticus 19:5-8. Change ), You are commenting using your Facebook account. What are your top 3 passages that you believe explicitly teach PSub? Well, to us, animal sacrifice may stink of savagery, violence, and death, but that's not the message … In Leviticus, human sin is an act that vandalizes, infects, and defiles God’s good world. He gave it to you to bear the guilt of the congregation, Lord” (Lev 10:17). The sharing of grain offerings within the kohanic community was more clearly endorsed by Leviticus 7:10 - "Every grain offering, whether mixed with oil or dry, shall belong to all the sons of Aaron, to one as much as the other". The person bringing this animal for sacrifice was placing his guilt on the head of this animal. You completely avoided addressing what the Scapegoat having sin placed upon it even meant…”. It shall be eaten the same day you offer it, and the next day; but what remains until the third day shall be burned with fire. This text must be read in light of how the New Testament shows events unfolding. Many Protestants point to the scapegoat in Lev 16:21 because it explicitly speaks of the laying of hands transferring sins onto the scapegoat. “Strike the Shepherd that the sheep may be scattered; And I will turn My hand against the little ones” (Zech 13:7). All this is to say that while I understand what you’re trying to get at, I don’t believe it is a fair reading of the Biblical evidence. The Epistle of Barnabas, in Chapter 7, makes the same claim. The text says NOTHING about atonement, sin, guilt, etc.”. Even the Vulgate literally translates itself this way (https://translate.google.com/#la/en/cur%20non%20comedistis%20hostiam%20pro%20peccato%20in%20loco%20sancto%20quae%20sancta%20sanctorum%20est%20et%20data%20vobis%20ut%20portetis%20iniquitatem%20multitudinis%20et%20rogetis%20pro%20ea%20in%20conspectu%20Domini), “Though you link to my “Does the Bible say Jesus was our Scapegoat” article, it doesn’t look like you gave it a fair reading. For example, Leviticus 1:3 starts describing the requirement for the burnt offering. “…and this is key when Moses, Phinehas, and Aaron are explicitly said to make atonement for sinners without having to be punished in their place. Animal (211 instances) Offering (956 instances) Sin (929 instances) Related Topics. Catholic Nick writes, “Though there is talk of placing hands on the head of sacrifices, there is no mention of this involving the (symbolic) transfer of guilt, nor does this even make sense in regards to sacrifices not involving sin (Lev 3:1-2).”. The individual bearing guilt here is of defiling the sanctuary AFTER they come to offer sacrifice. So, Is 53:5 obviously proves the idea of substitution. This, again, is a strawman. The Scapegoat wasn’t a sacrifice and it was released into the wilderness while the priest had to bathe TWICE after touching and releasing it…and yet you’re saying when the priest does this same transfer of sins upon a sacrifice that the animal is suddenly to be taken into the holiest place in the world? The text says NOTHING about how either sacrifice functioned. Hence, peace offerings literally bear iniquity, even though Catholic Nick would have you believe they have nothing to do with iniquity. And, let’s pretend that he was just quoting Isaiah word-for-word. I even color coded it. “Cyril goes into this in the same context you quote, how we have to model Christ in taking up our own Cross, which is nonsense if the whole point is Jesus taking upon the Cross so we don’t have to.”. Cyril of Alexandria said as much: “He had undergone, for our sakes, though innocent, the sentence of death. I am not exactly sure why. Moloch (also Molech or Molek) is a name or term that appears several times in the Hebrew Bible, primarily in the book of Leviticus.The Bible strongly condemns practices associated with Moloch, which appear to have included child sacrifice.. It was taught by some early Church Fathers (unlike the Satisfaction view) Further, it is the other side of the Satisfaction view. (6) My Scapegoat article does not have presuppositions, at least not devastating ones. 17 The Lord spoke to Moses, 2 “Tell Aaron, his sons, and all the Israelites that this is what the Lord has commanded: 3 Any Israelite who slaughters a bull, sheep, or goat inside or outside the camp 4 is guilty of bloodshed. Which as I said in my reply, might be teaching other ramifications of sacrifices and how they forgives sins. Hereby in it, likewise, the one other, same, she, so much, such deed, that, A sacrifice for alliance or friendship, peace offering, Who, which, what, that, when, where, how, because, in order that, Verb - Hifil - Imperfect - third person masculine singular, Preposition-l | Noun - proper - masculine singular, LORD -- the proper name of the God of Israel, Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers, OT Law: Leviticus 7:11 This is the law of the sacrifice (Le Lv Lev. Damnation… ” Standing or Perpetual sacrifice. having sin placed upon it meant…... 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